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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:45 pm 
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Posts: 52
I am in process of building a 2nd NAS box. I have acquired everything I need excepet the HDs.

I got the Dell/Adaptec 2610SA RAID card from ebay for $100 (read a post that it works with Naslite), but later saw a lot of comments that nobody can make it works.

Can someone confirm is it will or will not work? If it won't work, I'll just fleabay it. Like to find out now before I spend $900 on 6x500drive SATA and the RAID card doesn't work.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:23 am 
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rather than do that i would just try it

if it doesn't work you may find the solution (even if you are not technical you may spot something someone else missed)

If it doesn't you can sell it then.

:)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:14 am 
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Never got mine to work although its supposed to. I do not know why this card works for some and not others. I think it is a driver issue.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:00 pm 
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jmiliz wrote:
Never got mine to work although its supposed to. I do not know why this card works for some and not others. I think it is a driver issue.


No reason why it should be - everyone is using the same drivers - the ones they get from ServerElements.

There are other areas that could be looked at - areas where variables do exsist - what version firmware does the card have, what motherboard is it being used with, what network card is being used, maybe - although I doubt it - even what drives are being used - but since everyone is using the same driver, it's unlikely to be a driver issue.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:58 pm 
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Well I can say this. The card works and does create the array. Within the cards BIOS you can see the drives, configure them etc. NASLite just does not recognize it. The card works fine in other systems using other operating systems and is recognized. I did read a post that some had problems when the cache on the hard drive was enabled.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:22 pm 
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I could not get the Dell/Adaptec 2610 to work with NASLite. Installed Ubuntu and it works fine under that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Location: Texas, USA
If the hardware reference does not list that card then I guess it's not supported.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:06 am 
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The card is listed, that is the reason for continued discussion of this card. It is listed under Dell not Adaptec as a supported card yet many people cannot get it to work with NASLite.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:35 am 
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Location: Server Elements
We need to look closer at this but I think that the DELL and Adaptec cards carry different PCI IDs. Since the driver recognizes and works with the DELL, it stands to reason that it should also work with the Adaptec. It may be a case of simply adding the associated PCI ID for proper support.

We’ll have to take a closer look and see if there are differences between the two cards. At this point I’d assume that to be the case until we take a closer look.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:27 am 
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Thanks Tony! Any help getting this card to work will be greatly appreciated. Another thought. I and think others are using the card in a 32bit PCI slot rather than PCI-X. Would this make any difference in the driver needed to recognize the card?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:40 pm
Posts: 49
IT WORKS!!!!

I also have the Dell/Adaptec 2610SA RAID, have been using it in the MS box with 5 250gb sata drives sitting in RAID-5.

Anyways, I figured I would try to boot into naslite to see if it really works.

Using the kicker disk, I booted the system into NasLite 2.03 and voila it detected the card. It did say something about unknown id at boot, but did allow me to format the array which is 963GBs. it took about an hour to format the sucker.

UPSIDE - I now have another nas server with 1TB. If only I could find a IDE ATA raid card that was under $100 to raid-5 my ata ide drives.
DOWNSIDE - all the data on the sata drives attached to 2610SA card was sacrificed for the sake of experiment, of course it was backed up first which also took forever.

Vadim
PS It is almost 2am, forgive my many ramblings.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:14 am 
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Good to know it can work. Maybe you could let us know what BIOS version your card has and what motherboard. Are you using a standard 32bit PCI or PCI-X. I am not sure why on some systems NASLite will recognize the card and on others it will not. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:51 am 
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 52
Thanks all for the responses.

Tony:
Is it possible different version of firmwares is the main issue of this?


[quote="Tony"]We need to look closer at this but I think that the DELL and Adaptec cards carry different PCI IDs. Since the driver recognizes and works with the DELL, it stands to reason that it should also work with the Adaptec. It may be a case of simply adding the associated PCI ID for proper support.

We’ll have to take a closer look and see if there are differences between the two cards. At this point I’d assume that to be the case until we take a closer look.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:23 am 
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Posts: 49
The motherboard is old Abit VA-**. mobo, with via chipset.
The sata controller is the PCI-X version in the PCI slot.
The firmware is the latest firmware that these cards come pre-flashed with.

I am going to attach the boot log so you can see it. I can remove it upon request.


Vadim


Code:
Jan 23 01:39:18 syslog.info syslogd started: BusyBox v1.01 (2006.11.26-02:55+0000)
Jan 23 01:39:18 daemon.info init: ^MStarting pid 2068, console /dev/null: '/sbin/klogd'
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.notice kernel: klogd started: BusyBox v1.01 (2006.11.26-02:55+0000)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Linux version 2.4.33.NASLite (root@TZT) (gcc version 3.3.6) #1 Tue Aug 15 01:08:13 UTC 2006
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 0000000000000000 - 000000000009fc00 (usable)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 000000000009fc00 - 00000000000a0000 (reserved)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 00000000000f0000 - 0000000000100000 (reserved)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 0000000000100000 - 000000000fff0000 (usable)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 000000000fff0000 - 000000000fff3000 (ACPI NVS)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 000000000fff3000 - 0000000010000000 (ACPI data)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: BIOS-e820: 00000000ffff0000 - 0000000100000000 (reserved)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.notice kernel: 255MB LOWMEM available.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: On node 0 totalpages: 65520
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: zone(0): 4096 pages.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: zone(1): 61424 pages.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: zone(2): 0 pages.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: RSDP (v000 VIA692 ) @ 0x000f6f00
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: RSDT (v001 VIA692 AWRDACPI 0x42302e31 AWRD 0x00000000) @ 0x0fff3000
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: FADT (v001 VIA692 AWRDACPI 0x42302e31 AWRD 0x00000000) @ 0x0fff3040
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: DSDT (v001 VIA692 AWRDACPI 0x00001000 MSFT 0x0100000c) @ 0x00000000
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Kernel command line: root=/dev/ram0 rw
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Initializing CPU#0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Detected 801.844 MHz processor.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Calibrating delay loop. 1599.07 BogoMIPS
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Memory: 253532k/262080k available (2198k kernel code, 8160k reserved, 734k data, 536k init, 0k highmem)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Dentry cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Inode cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 5, 131072 bytes)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Mount cache hash table entries: 512 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Buffer cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Page-cache hash table entries: 65536 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: CPU: L1 I cache: 16K, L1 D cache: 16K
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: CPU: L2 cache: 256K
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.debug kernel: CPU: After generic, caps: 0383f9ff 00000000 00000000 00000000
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.debug kernel: CPU: Common caps: 0383f9ff 00000000 00000000 00000000
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: CPU: Intel Pentium III (Coppermine) stepping 03
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Enabling fast FPU save and restore. done.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Enabling unmasked SIMD FPU exception support. done.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Checking 'hlt' instruction. OK.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Checking for popad bug. OK.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: IRQ9 SCI: Level Trigger.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: Subsystem revision 20040326
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb390, last bus=1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: PCI: Using configuration type 1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: Interpreter enabled
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: Using PIC for interrupt routing
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: System [ACPI] (supports S0 S1 S4bios S4 S5)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: PCI Root Bridge [PCI0] (00:00)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: PCI: Probing PCI hardware (bus 00)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: PCI: Via IRQ fixup
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.debug kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Routing Table [\_SB_.PCI0._PRT]
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKA] (IRQs 1 3 4 *5 6 7 10 11 12 14 15)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKB] (IRQs 1 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 14 15) *0, disabled.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKC] (IRQs 1 3 4 5 6 7 *10 11 12 14 15)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKD] (IRQs 1 3 4 5 6 7 10 *11 12 14 15)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: PCI: Probing PCI hardware
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKD] enabled at IRQ 11
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKC] enabled at IRQ 10
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNKA] enabled at IRQ 5
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: PCI: Using ACPI for IRQ routing
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Initializing RT netlink socket
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Starting kswapd
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Journalled Block Device driver loaded
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: devfs: v1.12c (20020818) Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: devfs: boot_options: 0x1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Installing knfsd (copyright (C) 1996 okir@monad.swb.de).
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: Power Button (FF) [PWRF]
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ACPI: Processor [CPU0] (supports C1 C2, 2 throttling states)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Real Time Clock Driver v1.10f
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Floppy drive(s): fd0 is 1.44M
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: FDC 0 is a post-1991 82077
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 8192K size 1024 blocksize
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: loop: loaded (max 8 devices)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Driver - version 5.7.6-k1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Copyright (c) 1999-2004 Intel Corporation.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: dgrs: SW=$Id: dgrs.c,v 1.13 2000/06/06 04:07:00 rick Exp $ FW=Build 550 11/16/96 03:45:15
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: FW Version=$Version$
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: 3c59x: Donald Becker and others. www.scyld.com/network/vortex.html
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: 00:0b.0: 3Com PCI 3c905B Cyclone 100baseTx at 0xe800. Vers LK1.1.18
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: nd@alpha.franken.de
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ThunderLAN driver v1.15
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: TLAN: 0 devices installed, PCI: 0 EISA: 0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: dmfe: Davicom DM9xxx net driver, version 1.36.4 (2002-01-17)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ns83820.c: National Semiconductor DP83820 10/100/1000 driver.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: sk98lin: No adapter found.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: forcedeth.c: Reverse Engineered nForce ethernet driver. Version 0.50.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 7.00beta4-2.4
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: VP_IDE: IDE controller at PCI slot 00:07.1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: VP_IDE: chipset revision 6
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: VP_IDE: VIA vt82c686a (rev 1b) IDE UDMA66 controller on pci00:07.1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ide0: BM-DMA at 0xd000-0xd007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: ide1: BM-DMA at 0xd008-0xd00f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: hda: FUJITSU MPE3136AT, ATA DISK drive
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: hda: attached ide-disk driver.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: hda: 26688576 sectors (13665 MB) w/512KiB Cache, CHS=1661/255/63
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Partition check:
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0: p1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: SCSI subsystem driver Revision: 1.00
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Loading Adaptec I2O RAID: Version 2.4 Build 5
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Detecting Adaptec I2O RAID controllers.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Red Hat/Adaptec aacraid driver (1.1-3 Aug 15 2006 01:22:52)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: kernel 4.1.4 build 7403
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: monitor 4.1.4 build 7403
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: bios 4.1.0 build 7403
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: serial c33116fafaf001
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: scsi1 : aacraid
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Vendor: DELL Model: TeraArray_SATA Rev: V1.0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: scsi: Detection failed (no card)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.notice kernel: megaraid: v2.10.10.1 (Release Date: Thu Jan 27 16:19:44 EDT 2005)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: GDT-HA: Storage RAID Controller Driver. Version: 3.04
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: GDT-HA: Found 0 PCI Storage RAID Controllers
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: 3ware Storage Controller device driver for Linux v1.02.00.037.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: 3w-xxxx: No cards found.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.debug kernel: libata version 1.20 loaded.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Attached scsi disk sda at scsi1, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: SCSI device sda: 1953116160 512-byte hdwr sectors (999995 MB)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: /dev/scsi/host1/bus0/target0/lun0: p1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: raw1394: /dev/raw1394 device initialized
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: sbp2: $Rev: 1074 $ Ben Collins
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.err kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Driver forced to serialize I/O (serialize_io = 1)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: usb.c: registered new driver hub
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: host/uhci.c: USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v1.1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: host/uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd400, IRQ 11
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: hub.c: USB hub found
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: hub.c: 2 ports detected
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: host/uhci.c: USB UHCI at I/O 0xd800, IRQ 11
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: hub.c: USB hub found
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: hub.c: 2 ports detected
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Initializing USB Mass Storage driver.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: USB Mass Storage support registered.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: IP: routing cache hash table of 2048 buckets, 16Kbytes
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: TCP: Hash tables configured (established 16384 bind 32768)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0/SMP for Linux NET4.0.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.notice kernel: RAMDISK: NASLite file system found at block 0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: .<6>hub.c: new USB device 00:07.2-1, assigned address 2
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: .<6>scsi2 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: . Vendor: LEXAR Model: DIGITAL FILM Rev: /W1.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Attached scsi removable disk sdb at scsi2, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: .SCSI device sdb: 125952 512-byte hdwr sectors (64 MB)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: sdb: Write Protect is off
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: /dev/scsi/host2/bus0/target0/lun0:. unknown partition table
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.debug kernel: WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.debug kernel: USB Mass Storage device found at 2
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: .<6>Freeing initrd memory: 1607k freed
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem).
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Mounted devfs on /dev
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Freeing unused kernel memory: 536k freed
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: kjournald starting. Commit interval 5 seconds
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: EXT3 FS 2.4-0.9.19, 19 August 2002 on sd(8,1), internal journal
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:50 am
Posts: 149
Loading Adaptec I2O RAID: Version 2.4 Build 5
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Detecting Adaptec I2O RAID controllers.
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: Red Hat/Adaptec aacraid driver (1.1-3 Aug 15 2006 01:22:52)
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: kernel 4.1.4 build 7403
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: monitor 4.1.4 build 7403
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: bios 4.1.0 build 7403
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: AAC0: serial c33116fafaf001
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.info kernel: scsi1 : aacraid
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Vendor: DELL Model: TeraArray_SATA Rev: V1.0
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Jan 23 01:39:18 user.warn kernel: scsi: Detection failed (no card)

I notice your log shows bios 4.1.0 build 7403. I think this is the RAID BIOS info. I just booted my card again and it shows BIOS 4.2-1 build 7368. Yours also lists as a DELL and mine reports Adaptec in the BIOS with no mention of DEL. Mine card also has adpatec stamped on it and nowhere mentions Dell. If I google 2610SA 4.2-1 7368 I keep getting links to an HP version of the card (9005:0285:103c:3227 Adaptec 2610SA (Bearcat HP release)
Maybe these are not all from DELL.


Last edited by jmiliz on Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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