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 Post subject: fiber switch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Leeds, West yorkshire, uk
Morning all ,

Can anybody recommended is there a fibre switch about that has 4 or 8 ports that is 4 gigabit

been looking about for a while and not found any :( have found some enterprise units about but they have 24 ports and above and are way too over kill for what I require

A gigabit switch with some sfp ports at 4 gig would be ok too

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:05 pm
Posts: 1680
Location: Up State NY in the USA!!!!
Well Steve, there is no 4gig ethernet. It is either 1gig or 10gig, there is nothing in the middle. If you are still messing with the fibre channel cards they will not work for a network under NASLite.

Steve I get the idea that you are missing the fact that fibre channel is basically a hard drive and storage network interface. Look up FC-AL fiber channel arbitrated loop for the info you may be missing.


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Leeds, West yorkshire, uk
Hi Mike,

As always thank you

I was hoping to use star topology fibre network i have seen several switches on my travels but
they have been mainly in data centres and communication data centres.
I am wishing to use fibre for noise immunity and to overcome the 100m issues whilst also having a play

Talking to the techies on the sites they are using star topology's, due to ease to find and
troubleshoot problems and it's easy to expand the network.

I have since found that there are some industrial fibre switches on the market and i am just
waiting for some data sheets / info

Looking at

Rockwell Automation
Klippon
Westamo

also I may be totally wrong on this one and got the wrong idea all together :(

Regards

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:05 pm
Posts: 1680
Location: Up State NY in the USA!!!!
Steve,

It sounds to me like you are a bit of a noob when it comes to this networking thing. There is no offense intended here. It is just that you seem to be lacking just about everything including the very basics of networking.

First off, all modern Ethernet infrastructure is star based in a simple system such as yours and mine. There are exceptions to this but for the most part, Star.

Second, Copper based Ethernet is generally very noise immune even in challenging environments. These kind of environments include heavy industrial where you have allot of machine control and inverters as well as motors and welders etc. Most of the time it still is not an issue. I have implemented Ethernet networks in machine shops and on occasion checked the logs in managed switches and the servers, there were no errors from lost packets. The occasional lost packet is not gonna cause you any grief nor will it the network.

Fibre is great for the long runs but again most of the time it is not needed unless you are talking a very large building or a data center where you are looking for a robust network. In such a case we will install an edge switch in a local closet to feed devices at the extremity and have a simple duplex fibre link to the core switch.

There are ways to get faster Ethernet links by using a technique called "trunking". this is generally from a core switch to an intermediate switch that then feeds a number of edge switches which in turn then feed the individual nodes. NASLite does not support trunking by the way. There are servers that come with multiple NICs that support trunking but in the end it is generally easier to simply install a 10G Ethernet NIC (all the newer servers now come standard with 10G NICs on board) and simply buy a switch with a 10G up link port and however many 1G ports you think you may need.

But you are getting out of the zone that NASLite is designed to play in. It will do 1G all day long and there is support for 10G NICs as well but for the most part the hardware will be the limit. The drives, the RAID card, the bus, and even the NIC. Also, if the drivers are not well written and implemented properly then you will not get the speeds you think you should. Everything needs to be up to snuff so to speak to get to the speeds you seem to be looking for. Well get out your check book. It is expensive. Oh, and forget cheap no name brands with commodity chips in them. They are fine for the general run of the mill stuff but you will not find them in most quality switches handling the routing and switching.

You do not need industrial switches nor I suspect Fibre but how you spend and or waste your money is up to you.

You are welcome to tell us what your real world environment is and what you are trying to do if you want a little more pointed direction rather than the general you find above.

Hope the above helps a bit more.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Leeds, West yorkshire, uk
Hi Mike ,

In response to your reply, the company that I work for has been instructed by the insurance company to move the server rack to at least 3 mtrs above ground level ( why I don't know ) .

The rack comprises of 4 machines running naslite and 1 machine running win server 2003 another running xp with dongles attached for the cam software(s)

The it manager has requested that this be at the other other end of the factory witch the cable runs are in the order of 120 mtrs ish witch is over the maximum recommended 100mtrs for cat 5 & 6
He has also requested that this run be in fiber too as the shortest run via the fab shop he doesn't want me to run as there are tig welding plant, and the transformer test bay near by.

We have already had damage to network equipment via this route and at £1500 for the switch is reluctant to try again he also has said no to running FTP cat 6 cables through that fab shop.

the reason for looking at industrial network gear is due to buying power , as we are direct customer to many big name industrial process control suppliers, and can get a better price and support than our computer supplier.


Hope this helps

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:05 pm
Posts: 1680
Location: Up State NY in the USA!!!!
So the plot thickens!

The reason that they want the servers and network infrastructures up is due most likely to predicted maximum flood levels expected in your area of the country. Easy enough to handle I should think so that is a no brainer.

The TIG welders are a problem, especially when welding in AC mode with background HF start arc on. In your case I would recommend that you use fiber. By the way the limit for the actual twisted pair cable runs is not 100M but 92M. This is to allow for patching at both ends and add to the margins.

As to the cables, if copper runs are needed then look to STP (shielded twisted pair) rather then the standard UTP (unshielded twisted pair) and run it in conduit that is properly grounded. Be sure that the cables have no electrical contact with the conduit or your noise margins will be much smaller than they could be if properly implemented.

One can't assume that you have fibre at both ends, in the case of most machine tools I have dealt with this is generally not the case. As an alternative to the STP or UTP you could use fibre to the end point and use a media converter to get back to twisted pair. Remember that there is a minimum of 1M length from the media converter to the NIC on the machine tool or computer driving it.

Now the above then assumes that you buy a switch with LC fibre ports on it. If this is the case then I would think that buying standard run of the mill enterprise fare would be in order rather than an industrial switch. Besides, you will need the money you save on the switch to buy the media converters for the machine tools.

Last but of the most vital of importance is the power for the rack. You should have, in an ideal world, a true on line UPS. This is basically a battery charger with surge suppression on the front end followed by a true sin wave inverter to power your loads drawing it's power from the batteries. Real servers and switches are going to have double or even triple redundant power supplies and even the option of 48VDC input instead. The point is that the rack must be isolated from the power system. A proper electrician should be hired to make a dedicated run from the main switch gear where the power comes into the facility to the location of the rack. This should have a dedicated and isolated ground to the UPS, good ones are hard wired. Also standard is a ground rod driven at the location of the rack with the rack being grounded as well as the equipment in it.

All this is how we do it on this side of the pond, I assume that it is much the same there as well. Some of the above may not pertain so pick and choose as needs apply.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:37 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Leeds, West yorkshire, uk
Hi Mike,

As always thank you, the power to the server racks is not a problem it's well backed up by two ups and a static switch .

i wanted to use some industrial cat 6 cabling that is a modified version on the STP there is another 'Woven" braid over the top of the pvc jacket then another pvc jacket over that so in effect it's screened twice it's some stuff that we use at work in the substation's that we manufacture. But got told no !.

I have left the ball in the it managers court it's up to him to decide what to use and do .

thanks again for your advice

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: fiber switch
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:05 pm
Posts: 1680
Location: Up State NY in the USA!!!!
Looks like you have to deal with some one that has no idea of what they are doing. Must be nice to get to waste money that isn't yours. As I say in such cases as yours... "I can't get my head up my rear (I use a different word here of course, another name for a mule) far enough to see things from their perspective."

Good luck.

Mike


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