NASLite Network Attached Storage

I accept that this inquiry appears 'off-topic' but please bear with me a moment!
I've a SCSI card connection to an HP Scanjet 4P (C1130A) scanner; however although XP recognises the HP device, it does not support it. I tried the Adaptec XP-compliant PCI 2904 card in place of an unsupported DOMEX (DMX9314) card but to no avail. A scanner test usually freezes and a reboot is required (very occasionally I get a full scan, but after a while it crashes). I see on other forums that the Adaptec SCSI-USB connector has been successful, but they are rather expensive - does anyone have experience of this, or even a redundant one?

Secondly - although the SCSI BIOS should recognise connected devices at startup, it does not always do so. Is there a method to re-scan other than rebooting. [There is an active termination to the SCSI on the scanner]. Also is it possible to switch the card to a lower data rate such as 5 Mb, in case that is the problem. The PC is a 2GHz P4 with 1.5GB RAM.

The reason for all this is that I need to store A3 art work to my NL and have been given the scanner for this pupose. The previous owner used Win 2000, apparently without problems.
Any pearls of wisdom - or experience- gratefully received and digested! thanks jeffjohn

had a couple of 4c's years ago - think one is still in the back of the loft - it certainly worked with XP - HP originally sold it with a single port card - cannot remember the ref but it was a triangle shape - i used it with that and then other adaptec cards - have had many but it worked with the 1505 series

should work with 2904 and most others but cannot vouch for that

a couple of pointers - the lead length can be critical - keep it as short as possible - a metre or two but no longer - there is a rotating switch on the back of the 4c to select the scsi id - there are suspect - try it on a different id - mine never worked on a couple of numbers - 3 and 4 i think - also make sure its terminated - think thats a dip switch as well - cannot remember

lastly - and i am working from memory [not very good these days] i seem to remember there is a patch to make the software work on xp - was on the HP site

There are a number of things that can cause problems on the SCSI bus. First of all make sure that you are using at the least an active terminator, better yet a forced perfect terminator.

Second, make sure you are using a good quality cable. There are allot of cheap knock offs out there and they will cause havoc with the SCSI bus.

Third, be sure that you do not use ID7 on the scanner, the SCSI card is defaulted to that address.

Fourth, make sure that the SCSI card is terminated.

Fifth, make sure that term power is on from the card and off at the scanner. Also try it at both ends as a last resort.

I used to be a big fan of Adaptec cards but they have sucked for years now and I much prefer the LSI SCSI, SAS, SATA, and FC-AL cards. The 2940 is damn hard to beat for compatibility though and i do highly recommend one.

There is allot more to SCSI than that but check those first.

Mike

Hi Mike et al., thanks greatly for immediate response! In order-
1. HP scanner has attached active terminator with reassuring green led.
2. cable is a hefty HP cable
3. card uses ID7 as you say and HP is set to ID5 on the tumbler.
4. Card was plugged into PCI slot 'as delivered'. No instructions in the booklet; I'll dig it out and examine for any options.
5. Now this is interesting as I don't understand what you are saying here. The scanner has a switch option that is either set to a plus (+) or a dot (.). Any guidance on these?

I'm wondering whether it is a matter of processing power; if I set the scan requirements to absolutely lowest 8-bit b&W it sometimes works; if I then ease up the resolution, it freezes permanently. However adaptec's requirements are more than met.
Hope you can help me further! jeffjohn

i have just dug mine out and it runs perfectly on a 3gig p4 - 2 gig of ram on XP

what software are you running with it - the HP one [as supplied] works but with HP updates - only card i have is a 150x - not sure which it is - there were a few - 25pin outlet on the back plate

as a scanner its one of the best [and biggest] i have used

Hi Tony!
S/ware is HP Scanjet ll with sj166en patch. [Microsoft App. from My computer and commercial Vuescan all behave similarly].

About to study the Adaptec card. jeffjohn

that the software i'm using - cannot remember the patch ref - it was all on an old backup drive that is put in

theres not much on a 2940 as i remember - its bootable so will have a bios i guess - ctrl and A i think gets you in - maybe wrong on that - sure google will tell you

sure its no better than a 150x on speed - worth checking its a 2940 and not a 2940 ultra - the ultra is faster on the bus - would guess you could reduce the speed a scsi id in its bios - again from memory the ultra is 20?? - the 2940 is 10 - the scanner wants to be at the lowest setting - 5 if its an option

check the id on the tumbler on the back of the 4c - dont be shy of changing the id - as i said on 2 i have had the contacts were suspect

the + and dot are termination settings - mines on + as its at the end of the line

finally check the termination on the 2940 - it has an internal and external connector - there are settings in its bios to tell it which line the cable is on

check with google as the stuff on the 2940's bios is from very deep in my memory

Hi Tony & Mikeiver- I really am very pleased to have you guys supporting me.
Now, following your hints, I stripped everything out, re-assembled , rebooted and at the moment IT IS WORKING! "Millions of Colours"; I guess combining the vagaries of PCI , IRQs and SCSI is asking for trouble; I'm downloading my friends art work just in case tomorrow is a different story - hopefully all is mysteriously cured. Now Tony, I didn't know I could get into the card BIOS so thanks - I'll Google that this evening. Thanks again chaps! jeffjohn.

The size of the cable means nothing, it is compliance to the standards for cross talk, impedance, and shielding that make for a crap or good cable.

The green LED tells us that you have at least an active terminator so that is good.

The card you are talking about, the low profile card included should work. I think it shipped with a number of SCSI devices makers like HP, and Umax etc. It is none the less a generally cheap card and it's performance was fair at best. I installed a number of them way back when and always opted for a AHA-2940 card, if it was in the budget, in place of the card you have. I think I even have one in my card box, alone with a large array of Adaptec and LSI cards.

CTRL + A at the SCSI card BIOS splash gets you in on the Adaptec cards.

The difference between the AHA-2940, AHA-2940U, AHA-2940UW is minimal and all should work for you with defaults in the BIOS set. The main difference is that the U will go to 20MB/sec and the UW is a 16 bit bus capable of 40MB/sec. all of the above cards will drop back to the 5MB/sec speed by default if set to auto in it's BIOS and a slow device like your scanner is detected upon bus enumeration. The AHA-2940UW can also be used with the scanner if you have a 68 pin to 50 pin adapter cable. Just a note, the bus is only as fast as it's slowest device. If you have a 5MB/sec device and a 20MB/sec device on the same bus then welcome to 5MB/sec for all, It's kinda like our schools!

The AHA-1542 card is 10MB/sec 16bit ISA interface and does work with every device I have hung off of it. It can be a bit of a bear to configure at times though.

I would try ID1 or ID2 for giggles. You will have to power cycle the scanner and the computer for the changes to take effect.

In the end I would try the AHA-2940, AHA-2940u, and AHA-2940UW were all vastly popular in the day, supported in every OS, and can be had for nothing now. I highly recommend that you procure one of these if you intend to use the scanner.

I have an AGFA SCSI scanner and it kicks the crap out of most new scanners. Though parallel SCSI is basically EOL there are some incredible devices out there now to be had for cheap. Since most SCSI based devices were of better build there is a good chance that they are still more than servicable, scanners and printers are good examples.

Mike

Thanks Mike - what a well of information you have there! The SCSI card stuff is particularly interesting. On the cable it says, verbatim...

Computer E164535 AWM 2919 28AWG 80C 30V FTI VW-1 low voltage computer cable C AWM 1A

possibly something there that has significance! cable length is 1.5M.

As you see our msg crossed in the ether; but system actually working this evening - whether it works tomorrow, we shall see! Thanks again jeffjohn

Hi Guys! Sorry to prevail upon you with such frequency! this morning I rebooted the PC. Scanner had been left on. No Scan..

However having checked almost everything else, I am now wondering if it could be the scanner that is at fault. If I try a scan, with any software, the scanner whirs, lights up and advances; then stalls for ever. Could this be a mechanical shortfall such as lamp temperature or still an interface problem do you think? When it chooses to work seems to be random. If it works the scan is immaculate. Previous owner using Win 2000 reports no problems.

I see that the SCSI card IRQ is 11 which seems to be an 'overloaded' address, however the Device Manager says 'all working with no conflicts'. Incidentally, I can not get to see the Adaptec BIOS flash; I used to with the DOMEX card.

thats the wonder of scsi

or certainly the 4c and external peripherals - try it again - try the order you switch stuff on - locking up like that is not unusual - mike knows much more than me about the technical side - i just put it down to it being arsy when it happened to me

be patient - think of it as female - and treat it as such

Can see why it went out of favour; but there again it was faultless on my early Apple Mac LCs! when it works it is great tho! (like the missus!!)

seriously....the card as I did say is the AVA-2904. Adaptec confirm it is XP savvy but XP don't support HP C1130A. No BIOS is available:-
Adaptec say.."The controller does not have a \“SCSI Select Configuration Utility\” program to modify or make changes on the SCSI bus. The controller communicates to the maximum performance (max. 10 MB/s) that the SCSI device allows. This is done through arbitration.

Most common question with this model of controller is how to force the SCSI bus to slow speed. Speed option is not available with this model of controller. The card will always arbitrate to the highest mode the device can accommodate with the card and vice versa. Terminating resistor is also done automatically if the controller termination needs to be enabled or disabled.

If in need of a similar controller that has equivalent connector to the AVA-2904 or AVA-2904CD but has an option to force the configuration on the SCSI bus, then the AHA-2940AU (with ROM BIOS) should be considered. A SCSI configuration utility is available for the AVA-2906(2906cfg.exe) but the card comes with a DB-25 external connector. "
As Mike says!!

In summary, the XP/2904 know the HP 4P is there and the scanner burps and whirs on cue. BUT mostly, that is all it does! Shame that - I'd love to have it available!

but - but and again but - it worked last night - so it should work again - as an option how about getting hold of windows 2000 and installing that on a drive - that is said to work perfectly

if you need a serial let me know i have plenty of original stickers on old pc's

Trust me on this, SCSI is a totally rock solid interface. That is if you are using a good card. The card you have is one of those that is crippled, I hated Adaptec for those!

Move the card to a different PCI slot and see if it works again. The IRQ11 is usually assigned to the IDE interface and this could/would cause problems. SCSI can hit a bus hard if it is not one of those with the offload processor built in like the one you have. What you describe to me sounds like an IRQ conflict rather than failure of the device.

I have been running SCSI since about 95 as the boot drive and interface of choice in all my machines and have yet to be let down by it. SCSI is enterprise class performance and reliability.

Mike