NASLite Network Attached Storage

looking at trying to improve data throughput on one of my naslite boxes if someone can help ?

System is as follows :

foxconn P43AL motherboard
4Gig DDR2 677 ram (Matched 2 Gig Pair)
Intel Celeron Processor E3300 (1M Cache, 2.50 GHz, 800 MHz FSB)
samsung spintpoint sp2504c hard drive

1 gig network used

i understand that a hardware RAID is the way to go with some good hard drives not having done this before i am looking for some advice / point in the right direction.

the problem that we are experiancing is that this is used for storage for inventor files Typical file size 900 meg to maybe 3-4 gig on a large project with 6 people conected to naslite .

and are looking into helping to speed up data transfers

steve

If you're in the States, this is a bargain: 3Ware 9650SE-16ML 16 port Serial ATA RAID Controller & BBU-MODULE-03 and cables

It is a bargain, because the battery backup and the cables are included. This card fits a PCI Express x8 slot. I suppose it fits a x16 as well. You better check that first.

The 16 lane option gives you the opportunity to either make a RAID-6 array, or (the way I do it) make several (2, 4, 6...) RAID-0 (or RAID-1 for extra safety) arrays, which you can resync at night, so there is always a backup array. The card itself is f*cking fast, and you won't have any problem working from your NasLite box. Organizing your users is the key I guess.

If you're somewhere else, there is a Dutch company - 7Digits - selling good stuff, and shipping worldwide.



--
P.

Sorry that I missed your request for information.

The motherboard you have there is not exactly what I would recommend for the type of service you intend. If you are really going to be hammering on it and need it to be reliable and safe then you should look at a server class motherboard. For instance, I just bought an Intel S5000PSLSAS motherboard with 8GB of 677MHz FB DDR2 memory and two dual core Xeon 2.33GHz processors with a FSB of 1333MHz for $87.50 to my door. This is big hardware and very stable. Not the fastest to be sure but then again it is far faster than a simple NAS needs.

The card that PieterB links to is a great card but the price is way to much! I just picked up the same card but with the PCIx interface,
AMCC/3Ware 9550SXU-16ML, instead for $70.00 to my door. The cables were only another $30.00. I also bought an 8 channel card just for the BBU so I could pull it and install it on the 9550SXU-16ML channel card instead. That card was only $46.00, cheaper than I could have bought the BBU alone for!

Why PCIx rather than PCIe, well the performance is far more than both Ethernet ports could handle for one and the hardware is cheap compared to something a little more modern. 64bit at 133MHz or around 1GB/sec+ is really fast! Gigabit Ethernet is only good far around 1/10th of that.

So the number for the loaded out MB and the RAID card is $233.50 for the base build. This is truly cheap by any metric.

The case is going to be the part that hurts. I picked up a Chenbro RM-41416B on Ebay a while back for $300.00 with triple redundant 350W power supplies and a fourth spare. A nice case for the money. As you can see the cost adds up with the case and PS costing more than the other parts combined.

This all assumes that you are looking to build something akin to the above, as usual YMMV.

If you are looking for something more modest I have built a couple of great performing NASLite appliances based on one of these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181102612234 The price is right for the basic unit.

Mike

If you are serious about using NL in a business environment and throw big files at it from multiple users I would suggest staying away from standard consumer hardware. My experience has been that it is not nearly as reliable.

Mike, just for the record: are you aware of the fact that this motherboard doesn't sport any PCI-X slots? I am buying very cheap Intel 'Entry Level' server boards, with P4 CPU's. Together with these old PCI-X cards a wonderful and cheap combo. But if you do not have PCI-X available but just ordinairy PCI, it doesn't make sense - if you want speed - to use PCI-X cards in those PCI slots - I think.



I disagree with your assumption that consumer level hardware is not reliable. For a few of my clients I used Intel 915 boards, and they have proven to be very stable and very reliable. I agree that a choice for a board equipped with bells & whistles isn't the smartest thing for a NasLite server in a business environment.

--
P.

Pieter, the 915 is not an entry level server motherboard but a desktop board. I have a couple of them and though they work ok for the most part they were less than stellar in their support for expansion. I suspect that the issues I was having with them might have had to do with the memory though there was no issue with a mem test. I am aware that the board does not in fact have PCIx. That is the reason I brought up the server board as a better option. They are on Ebay all the time for far less than you could buy a motherboard, processor, and memory. Besides, a 32bit 33MHz PCI slot will still provide good performance, in theory around 132MB/sec. This is more than enough for a gigabit NIC. OF course this assumes that the NIC and the PCI slot are not on the same bus.

That being said I, and others, have a number of issues with consumer hardware being pushed into service as a server. For the general home user storing music or video they are fine but when you have clients that use them for business... A happy client is a referring client.

First, most of the consumer boards tend to add allot of frills that hamper not only performance but can cause issues with IRQ sharing.

Second, the fact that the memory is not ECC or FB so you can have memory errors that are not recoverable and cause crashed apps or worse BSOD in extreme cases.

Third, the chip set is designed for raw performance rather than reliability. You don't see consumer glue chip sets in servers for a reason.

Fourth, the processors. There are major differences in the consumer and the server chip sets centered around the memory and processor interface.

Fifth, the BIOS. Servers use a BIOS tuned for reliable and predictable performance rather than raw speed and bells and whistles.

My point in the last post is that there are allot of really great deals to be had on a generation old server hardware. You are not looking for raw performance but rather reliable performance and you just won't get that from consumer hardware. Server hardware is all about having large margins to maintain reliability where as consumer boards in general are about pressing performance at the expense of stability margins. If there was little difference between the two you would see companies like Google and Yahoo not spending megabucks on big server hardware and instead putting it into the same stuff you and I buy. Well not me but you get the idea.

So there you have my take on it. Again you should evaluate your needs and chose based on them.

Mike

Mike

Mike, maybe I wasn't precise enough in my writing (or you didn't read well...:-). I WAS referring to server boards. I used quite a few Intel SE7221BK1-E's. They have two PCI-X slots, and a big PCI express slot. And are using cheap P4's. For personal use I have this board with a 3Ware 9690 8 MultiLane card, and it's working fast and effortless 24/7 365. The multi-lane is great, because it solves a lot of cable trouble in the box.

For economical reasons, I used a few genuine Intel 915 boards with the good old 8006-2LP. Very stable boards, no issues. I specifically said in my post:



So we agree, I suppose.

Have a nice weekend (on this side of the ocean it already begun).

--
P.

thanks guys that has give me some things to think about

steve

You're quite welcome!

--
P.

Well piss on me! Guess I missed your meaning, sorry man. We are on the same page. I simply went with the PCIx because the cards are bout a third of the cost of the PCIe equivalent. Nothing more or less. The s5000 board also has dual PCIe 4x slots, there are a set of 8x slots but they are disabled due to a SAS interface being built on the board. Either or, both will more than get the job done to be sure.

You have a good weekend over there too!

And your more than welcome for the info Steve.

Mike

once again thanks guys

steve

[quote="mikeiver1"I simply went with the PCIx because the cards are bout a third of the cost of the PCIe equivalent.[/quote]

Hi Mike

My NL server' motherboard (ASUS M2N-MX) has a PCIe x1 and a PCIe x16 connectors. The idea of building a new server with server hardware and RAID sounds nice and intelligent. But as I have only 4 computers working on the NL server and not so much data doing aroung, finding a PCIe RAID card will be the easiest solution for me.

Any ideas or references ? I have seen some cards like the HP Smart Array P400 8 port SATA PCIe x8 with a LCI chip for $25 + shipping + cables or a Dell Perc 5i RAID 256MB PCIe SAS / SATA MN985 for $40 including cables.

Regards

Robby

Well Rob the problem with the two cards you post are numerous. The Dell card and the HP controller are RAID controllers Also they usually are kind of a pain to use outside of a Dell pr HP product in some cases. I have some older Dell ATA Raid cards and they were a bit of a pain to get working right. Performance was passable but not really worth the effort I put into them.

There are a bunch of SOHO targeted PCIe interfaced controllers to be had that should meet your needs. I just bought a 3ware sx9550 8 port RAID card with BBU for $46.00 to the door. It will work in either 32 or 64bit bus at 33MHz to 133MHz. Should fit in a standard PCI slot provided there are not components in front of the connector.

If you need to go with PCIe then High Point, Areca, LSI/3Ware and Promise all make great cards that perform more than well enough for any of our needs. For instance...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140955281973

Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350763744039

Are just a couple of things I found on Ebay. The prices are not to bad but then again when you are looking for cards with PCIe interfaces they do get about 3 times on average more expensive.

Hope that helps a bit,

Mike

Of course Mike. I'd say, as usual I'll have a look to the 2 PCIe cards and more into the PCI cards. As you said, the PCIe card are much more expensive and I don't really need the PCIe "sophistication".

Best regards.

Robby

Robby,

I have some 8006-2LP (4 or 5) cards in my inventory. The RAID array has a limitation of 2TB, but you can 'plant' a few in one box. That limitation is one of your criteria in the choice of your hardware. All older cards have this limitation, while newer cards don't. Tell me if you can use those cards. They're cheap. I also have a new intel server bord, incl processor and memory, and a 3ware 9550SX4LP RAID card, with battery backup unit. Price to be discussed.

--
P.

stumbled across this page while looking about for info

http://semiaccurate.com/2009/12/31/lian ... ntrollers/

steve