NASLite Network Attached Storage

Hi -- first time poster here...thinking about using NASLite-2 USB for a home NAS setup. Been doing a lot of on-line research, and I'd really value your feedback/advice on whether the following makes sense.

A. Problem Statement/Design Objectives:
1. For home use, where 2 adlt/2 teens have ~5 PC's (desktops/laptops, mostly running XP, soon Vista) for all sorts of uses -- school projects, photography, light video editing, media streaming, LP-> mp3 recording, etc...all pretty standard stuff. I want to centralize storage on a single server to simplify access to files, and to facilitate backup and disaster tolerance.

2. Current storage needs once I consolidate our current data storage onto the NAS device probably about 150GB today. I want to design the system for growth 2x/year over 5 years, so roughly 5TB.

3. Without being ridiculously paranoid, I want to be able to handle recovery from hardware failures fairly quickly, be able to handle disasters (house fire, and we live in California, so forest fire, earthquake, and flood not uncommon). So I want to be able to easily and regularly move a complete archive copy of critical hard-to-replace data to off-site storage. I also want to be able to encrypt data easily -- either entire NAS, or select disk volumes, in case the NAS is stolen, or in case a backup copy is stolen.

4. Other -- I want to build a high value system, do not mind spending a little extra, but I want to be efficient about it. Definitely want to keep costs including initial disks, under $1,000...prefer $500. I build my own PC's, so willing to take on some challenges. I also view this as an opportunity to learn more about Linux, RAID, networking, media streaming, etc.

B. My draft plan is as follows:
1) Build a system using the following: a) Mid Tower case, b) ~350-500W 80%+ Efficient Power Supply, c) Socket LGA 775 motherboard w/1Gb/s NIC and on-board video & SW RAID 0/1/0+1/5), such as http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127037 d) Low End Intel Core 2 Duo Processor, f) 2x1GB DDR2 memory, e) 4-in-3 3Gb/s S-ATA hot swappable enclosure like this one (ttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817332010).

2) Install NASLite 2 as current first choice(or possibly FreeNAS, Ubuntu Linux, etc.).

3) Initially install 2 500GB disks, in a RAID 1 (Mirror) configuration. The mirrored copy would serve as a local backup, and monthly, I would pull the mirrored copy out, replace with a new disc, and take the backup copy off site (to relative's house, safe deposit box, or work desk). I am hoping the hot swap capability means that I can simply pull a drive, and pop the new one in before going to sleep, and have the mirror rebuild itself over night.

4) Set up disk encryption, using a package like TrueCrypt:
http://www.truecrypt.org/

5) Eventually, I would add another pair of 500GB disks to accomodate growth in the 4 slot enclosure, and then I would migrate to 1TB or 2TB disks. I would use RAID 5, but concerned that this does not give me a disaster tolerant solution.

C. My List of Questions For You
1. Does my overall system architecture and approach to scaling, encryption, and disaster tolerance make fundamental sense?
2. Will my encryption approach work?
3. Will I be able to hot swap disks in and out, having the new one re-synch, while having the removed one available as an offsite copy? Does anyone have a better disaster tolerant solution that has a better balance of cost, convenience, and reliability?
4. Will I be able to mount the NAS disk volume(s) easily on XP, Vista, and int he future, possibly Linux, or Apple clients?
5. Will I be able to easily feed a Media PC/cleint from this NAS setup?
6. Should I consider hardware RAID for RAID 1, instead of the on board SW solution?
7. What is the protocol used by NASLite and XP/Vista to mount the NAS volume(s) on my client PCs?
8. Does NASLite seem like the right product for this job, or should I consider FreeNAS or building directly on top of a Linux distro like Ubuntu?
9. What am I missing? What would you change? Anything not make sense?

Really trying to do this right, and would appreciate any and all input!

I would try to see if I can answer your questions:

1. Does my overall system architecture and approach to scaling, encryption, and disaster tolerance make fundamental sense?
Yes, but I would imagine it'll take more $$$ then u planned. Also not sure how to set RSYNC on 2 NASlite boxes through the net. I am curious too if that can be done. anyone, Tony, Ralph?

2. Will my encryption approach work?
Not sure. Have not see it was discussed before in the forum.

3. Will I be able to hot swap disks in and out, having the new one re-synch, while having the removed one available as an offsite copy? Does anyone have a better disaster tolerant solution that has a better balance of cost, convenience, and reliability?
I think "dimension" done this before. I think the way he did it is, he have 2 identical NASlite system that rsync every night (each has 2 500G HD in it) and when one of the HD failed. he just pulled a drive from the backup system and plugged it in the main system. I personally have 2 boxes that I sycn them manually once a week. 1 Box is on 24/7. The other one is off most of the time.

4. Will I be able to mount the NAS disk volume(s) easily on XP, Vista, and int he future, possibly Linux, or Apple clients?
Very easy in windows. I mapped them by IP. Not sure about the rests: Apple, Linux...

5. Will I be able to easily feed a Media PC/cleint from this NAS setup?
Yes. I have HTPC with BTV and connect to my NAS box using gigabit ethernet. I can stream a couple HD channels with no hic cup.

6. Should I consider hardware RAID for RAID 1, instead of the on board SW solution?
Naslite does not support s/w RAID. Get yourself an adaptec RAID card from ebay. I found a 2610 (up to 6 SATA drives) for $100. It support RAID 0, 1, 5 and maybe JBOD (not sure)

7. What is the protocol used by NASLite and XP/Vista to mount the NAS volume(s) on my client PCs?
map drive

8. Does NASLite seem like the right product for this job, or should I consider FreeNAS or building directly on top of a Linux distro like Ubuntu?
Everyone has different preferences and needs. There is no way to say that NASlite is perfect for all of us. You need to try, play with it and decide yourself. If you don't want to spend the $30 license, maybe you should start with FreeNAS.

9. What am I missing? What would you change? Anything not make sense?
IF you decide to go with Naslite, I would recommend you get lower end of MB/CPU. There is NO need to go with C2D. You can even used a VIA 800MHZ MB (or if you live near FRY's, just look for thier lowest end MB combo deal) to run the NAS. Just add a gigabit PCI card and HW RAID card and you are set. The main thing here is the lower CPU/MB you used, the less power consumption (I am assuming you want to let the NAS run 24/7?)

Thank you, siaopao...very helpful feedback -- a few things I should clarify:

1. Not too worried if it takes a few extra $'s, but pretty confident I can stay within or close to my $500-$1,000 budget. No problem spending the money on the NASLite-2 license -- it is a bargain. Only want to verify if it is the right product for what I am trying to do.

2. I am not planning to use rsynch to automate disaster tolerance, nor am I planning to mirror to a duplicate system. I simply wanted to mirror (RAID 1) my drives within the main NAS box, and then periodically, hot swap the mirror copy, replace the drive, and take the copy off-site for storage. Idea would be to use two drives per volume and rotate through off-site storage. Looks like NASLite-2 supports mirroring directly, but is this not RAID 1? Looks like mirror is not "live, but rather done only daily? Does anyone have experience hot swapping a mirrored volume and using the swapped out copy for remote backup?

3. Good point on the low power --thinking about a low-wattage Celeron (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116038), and the low wattage Western Digital drives such as this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136149
Also now thinking about this case (would support 2 or 3 external 3.5" drives and two internal drives...fits in my entertainment case nicely, and comes with an efficient power supply): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129034

Eagerly awaiting feedback/suggestions from others as well -- really excited about this project!!!

Just be sure you get a big enough power supply. If you plan on staying with 2 disks then the 350-500W you mentioned should be fine but if you plan on scaling up to 5-6 disks the case you mentioned may be pushing it.

As far as your plan for RAID-1 with offsite storage of a disk, I do not think it will work the way you want. Whenever you remove a disk from your RAID-1 and swap in a new one, the array will have to be rebuilt. This takes time and whenever you perform the swap, the array needs rebuilt. I believe there are ways to accomplish this but not without significant cost. An easier solution would be to have and external SATA backup drive (either backup your RAID-1 or backup a single NASLite drive periodically) and take this off site.

Also now thinking about this case (would support 2 or 3 external 3.5" drives and two internal drives...fits in my entertainment case nicely, and comes with an efficient power supply): [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129034[/url]

I actually spend quote some time and $$ to minimize the noise of my NAS box. I think I tried 4-5 cases before I am "ok" with my setup. I have the Antec Desktop case for my HTPC. Aside from it's a desktop platform, I don't feel it's a quite case.

I used Antec P180/2 for my NAS. I got 6 HDs (400G Seagate) in it with RAID 5 (2TB). The other thing I like about the P180 series is, it got rooms for future expansion (2nd RAID card and 4 more drives) and most importantly, it's quite (but heavy).

Agree I'd need to go with a larger power supply with a larger config, but for now, I think I'm going to stay with a more modest 4 disks, and staying with low power CPU/disks, so 380W Antec Earthwatts should be good enugh.

I understand the issue where I'd need to re-mirror whenever I take a disk offsite, but also thinking that could be handled overnight. Was also thinking an external USB drive like a Maxtor OneTouch might be a better approach. My latest thought is to use RAID 1 for all disks, and start with one 500GB disk for less important files like music, and go with another 500GB disk, also RAID 1, and in addition encrypted, for email .PST files, pictures, and financial records...basically anything I'd want covered by a disaster recovery plan. Then I would back that 2nd disk up to a rotating set of 2 USB drives monthly and take off site. The RAID 1 would cover things like disk crashes. I'd have the two master disks internal the the box, and the two mirrors hot-swappable and accessible fromt the outside, so if I ever wanted to, I could just hot swap a failed disk or use to take off site (more for solution elegance than anything really needed).

Sound like an ok plan?

I just looked at the P180 /2, and you are right, that does look like a great box, but more capacity than I need, and most importantly, I have buy-in from my wife to go with the Antec HTPC case and put it, along with the router and modem in our entertainment case. We do not have a good place to put a larger case, and my wife hates lots of computers lying around. It needs to be near one of our two cable outlets given that I want to hardwaire the NAS into the router so that further limits location choices.

To address the noise issue, I appreciate your warning! I will plan to replace all the fans with the quietest ones I can find and should be good to go. I also like that I can have two internal master drives and 2 external hot swappable drives as my RAID 1 mirrors (potentially 3 external with a 3-in-2 hot swap enclosure), so it is simply the right box at the right time for me, and the 5-egg rating by NewEgg customers is encouraging. It has the "appliance" feel and elegance feel I am looking for to kee my wife happy, and I like the 80% efficient power supply. If I outgrow the 4-5 disk capacity down the road, I would just buy a new case.

Thanks again for the noise heads-up and case suggestion!

NASLite does not support hotswap, a shutdown would be required to remove any drives.

Thanks, Ralph...good to know. It was a "nice to have" for me anyway.

Just curious -- any idea if hot swap support is in the works?

Another thing that seems to have been missed is the requirement of encryption of data. NL does not support encryption so you will have to offload that to the client machine/s.

Pretty sure that it has also been pointed out that NL does not support software RAID, you will need to buy one of the supported cards if RAID1 is to be implemented.

NL should have no problem with meeting your needs as long as you are flexible with how your demands are met.

Mike

Mike -- thank you for these important reminders.

On the encryption topic, I was planning to use truecrypt (http://www.truecrypt.org/) on the server, but now that I think about, since NASLite is very lightweight, I realize that this may need to be a client function...will need to think about that. Does anyone know if truecrypt would work on a NASLite server?

For RAID, I was planning to get a motherboard that supports (software) RAID 0/1/0+1/5, such as this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-128-090)so that should cover me, assuming these motherboard functions work on a NASLite server? In addition, I can always use the NASLite mirror function to take snapshots.

Thanks again!

First off, NL is a closed application/OS and you have no access to the underlying OS so Truecrypt will not be an option should you decide to go with NL.

Second, THERE IS NO SUPPORT FOR ANY SOFTWARE RAID IN NL. The ports on the MB you have spected out will simply be another pair of SATA/PATA ports to hang drives off of. The RAID functionality will not be available. This will likely be the case with any flavor of Linux you choose unless the board maker of the maker of the RAID chip set have written drivers for Linux. Your only options should you decide that RAID is a must is to go with one of the supported cards by the likes of 3Ware, LSI, Adaptec, or a few others I can't recall off the top of my head.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news on those fronts.

Mike

Hi Mike....this is really good to know and appreciated before I go off and spend a ton of money, time, and frustration on the wrong products/directions.

After a little more investigation on truecrypt, it does seem like I can use truecrypt on the client side, creating containers that would just appear to NASLIte as files, much as WinZip can store .zip files on the server -- does this sound right? Would be good to know if anyone is doing this.

On the RAID side, if I want to have up to two pairs of RAID-1 drives, any suggestions on the best value for an inexpensive, proven/well-supported, reliable RAID card?

Thanks...Dave

Hello davew:

I have discussed my dislike (despite advantages) of RAID on this forum before. As a previous poster said in this thread ... the re-building of the array takes time. So that negates one of your objectives (easy/fast swap for off-site storage). My money is on daily rsync. Advantages: it is built-in to NL, it is fast (after the initial mirroring the incrementals take little time), "mistakes" don't propagate (in RAID-1 deleting a file from the disk (by "mistake" ?) immediately also deletes it off the other). You still have to power down to (occasionally) swap out the mirror disk with the offsite disk. But that's still a lot faster than rebuilding a RAID-1 disk.

My other suggestion would be for two identical CHEAP servers, the second server has disk(s) that are simply mirror copies. You can build two lower-end systems for what you were planning to spend on a single Core 2 Duo. The second system (that's what I have) only gets powered up for a short time each day to perform the mirror. An advantage of the second server: if you experience a problem with the first ... you have redundant hardware. A disadvantage is that you need twice as many disks (but that's already true with your RAID-1 and/or offsite storage objective).

Someones suggestion of going to Fry's and picking up a cheap combo special is also a good one -- make that two identical combo specials

Hope this helps.

Georg

TrueCrypt will work. I have used it in the past. As you said, it is only creating an encrypted container which can be placed anywhere. It is kind of a pain though since you have to run truecrypt, mount the encrypted volume, then enter a password each time you want to access it. You may be able to automate this however, but I did not spend that much time learning it.